Bilateral efforts between the United States and China to address climate change have come to a virtual standstill asU.S.-China relations have taken a turn for the worse in recent months, with a trade war emerging, precipitated by U.S. President Donald Trump’s tariff initiatives. That is part of the assessment offered by Nicholas Burns, the Roy and Barbara Goodman Family Professor of the Practice of Diplomacy and International Relations at Harvard Kennedy School and former U.S. Ambassador to China – in the latest episode of my monthly podcast, “Environmental Insights: Discussions on Policy and Practice from the Harvard Environmental Economics Program.” The podcast is produced by the Harvard Environmental Economics Program. I hope you will listen to our conversation here.
Nick Burns, whose esteemed career in the civil service has spanned more than 30 years, explains that the Biden administration had two major priorities for U.S.-China relations while he served as U.S. Ambassador from 2022 to 2025.
“Competition for us was the main focus of our efforts with China, but we also knew…that we have to live in peace with China. The idea of a war would be catastrophic for both countries and the world, and there are some issues where our interests are aligned and we need to work together for the benefit of both of our countries and the world. I thought that signature issue was climate change, and that China and the United States could…work together both in the Paris Agreement process and also bilaterally,” he remarks.
“I am someone who deeply believes in the Paris Agreement, that we need to remain committed to working with China and the other 193 or 194 nation states as part of the Conference of the Parties, and that this is an existential issue for the future of our planet, for the eight billion people who live on it.”
Nick notes that while the bilateral relationship may be primarily competitive, there are occasions when the two countries can work together as was the case when the United States and China negotiated and signed the Sunnyland Statement in 2023, affirming the two nations’ joint commitment to take actions to address climate change.
“[Former U.S. lead climate negotiator] John Kerry and [China’s former special climate envoy] Xie Zhenhua spent a lot of time together… to achieve that statement where… they held up climate change as an issue where it was definitely in the interest of both countries and that both of us had to play a leadership role,” he explains.
Nick Burns also describes in our podcast conversation his frustration with the Trump administration’s decision to withdraw the U.S. from the Paris Agreement, in effect removing the United States from international climate negotiations.
“I’m gravely disappointed to see the backsliding by the Trump administration on this issue. I guess we shouldn’t be surprised given what President Trump did in his first term, and he threatened to pull us out this time, which he’s now done, but that is not in our interest. In fact, it’s really harmed our ability to protect our own country from the ravages of climate change, and it’s harmed our global credibility as a leader in the world,” he remarks. “It’s going to rebound not just on this issue, but I think in others as well.”
Burns emphasizes the importance of maintaining substantive communications with China even when the two countries disagree on some major issues “because I think it’s fair to say this is our most important diplomatic relationship in the world. What happens in this relationship is going to drive a lot of history, our global history, in the next decade, two or three.”
Finally, Nick Burns urges that students from the Harvard Kennedy School and elsewhere should consider a career in the civil service, even if they are currently disenchanted with the present political environment in Washington.
“We need good men and women to go into public service in our country, to serve in the military, in the federal government, and especially in the State Department as we engage countries around the world. And I think that the pendulum will swing back towards an appreciation for nonpartisan public servants,” he says. “We’ve got to show the rest of the world and our own countrymen and women that we’re as committed as they are to taking on the challenge of climate and to meeting it the only way that’s going to be effective working with other countries, including China. So, if you’re a young person listening, trying to figure out what you want to do with your life, there’s so much good you can do.”
For this and much more, please listen to my complete podcast conversation with Nick Burns, the 67th episode over the past five years of the Environmental Insights series, with future episodes scheduled to drop each month. You can find a transcript of our conversation at the website of the Harvard Environmental Economics Program. Previous episodes have featured conversations with:
- Gina McCarthy, former Administrator of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
- Nick Stern of the London School of Economics discussing his career, British politics, and efforts to combat climate change
- Andrei Marcu, founder and executive director of the European Roundtable on Climate Change and Sustainable Transition
- Paul Watkinson, Chair of the Subsidiary Body for Scientific and Technological Advice (SBSTA) within the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change
- Jos Delbeke, professor at the European University Institute in Florence and at the KU Leuven in Belgium, and formerly Director-General of the European Commission’s DG Climate Action
- David Keith, professor at Harvard and a leading authority on geoengineering
- Joe Aldy, professor of the practice of public policy at Harvard Kennedy School, with considerable experience working on climate change policy issues in the U.S. government
- Scott Barrett, professor of natural resource economics at Columbia University, and an authority on infectious disease policy
- Rebecca Henderson, John and Natty McArthur University Professor at Harvard University, and founding co-director of the Business and Environment Initiative at Harvard Business School.
- Sue Biniaz, who was the lead climate lawyer and a lead climate negotiator for the United States from 1989 until early 2017.
- Richard Schmalensee, the Howard W. Johnson Professor of Management, and Professor of Economics Emeritus at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
- Kelley Kizier, Associate Vice President for International Climate at the Environmental Defense Fund.
- David Hone, Chief Climate Change Adviser, Shell International.
- Vicky Bailey, 30 years of experience in corporate and government positions in the energy sector.
- David Victor, professor of international relations at the University of California, San Diego.
- Lisa Friedman, reporter on the climate desk at the The New York Times.
- Coral Davenport, who covers energy and environmental policy for The New York Times from Washington.
- Spencer Dale, BP Group Chief Economist.
- Richard Revesz, professor at the NYU School of Law.
- Daniel Esty, Hillhouse Professor of Environment and Law at Yale University.
- William Hogan, Raymond Plank Research Professor of Global Energy Policy at Harvard.
- Jody Freeman, Archibald Cox Professor of Law at Harvard Law School.
- John Graham, Dean Emeritus, Paul O’Neill School of Public and Environmental Affairs, Indiana University.
- Gernot Wagner, Clinical Associate Professor at New York University.
- John Holdren, Research Professor, Harvard Kennedy School.
- Larry Goulder, Shuzo Nishihara Professor of Environmental and Resource Economics, Stanford University.
- Suzi Kerr, Chief Economist, Environmental Defense Fund.
- Sheila Olmstead, Professor of Public Affairs, LBJ School of Public Affairs, University of Texas, Austin.
- Robert Pindyck, Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi Professor of Economics and Finance, MIT Sloan School of Management.
- Gilbert Metcalf, Professor of Economics, Tufts University.
- Navroz Dubash, Professor, Centre for Policy Research, New Delhi.
- Paul Joskow, Elizabeth and James Killian Professor of Economics emeritus, MIT.
- Maureen Cropper, Distinguished University Professor, University of Maryland.
- Orley Ashenfelter, the Joseph Douglas Green 1895 Professor of Economics, Princeton University.
- Jonathan Wiener, the William and Thomas Perkins Professor of Law, Duke Law School.
- Lori Bennear, the Juli Plant Grainger Associate Professor of Energy Economics and Policy, Nicholas School of the Environment, Duke University.
- Daniel Yergin, founder of Cambridge Energy Research Associates, and now Vice Chair of S&P Global.
- Jeffrey Holmstead, who leads the Environmental Strategies Group at Bracewell in Washington, DC.
- Daniel Jacob, Vasco McCoy Family Professor of Atmospheric Chemistry & Environmental Engineering at Harvard.
- Michael Greenstone, Milton Friedman Distinguished Service Professor of Economics, University of Chicago.
- Billy Pizer, Vice President for Research & Policy Engagement, Resources for the Future.
- Daniel Bodansky, Regents’ Professor, Sandra Day O’Connor College of Law, Arizona State University.
- Catherine Wolfram, Cora Jane Flood Professor of Business Administration, Haas School of Business, University of California, Berkeley, currently on leave at the Harvard Kennedy School.
- James Stock, Harold Hitchings Burbank Professor of Political Economy, Harvard University.
- Mary Nichols, long-time leader in California, U.S., and international climate change policy.
- Geoffrey Heal, Donald Waite III Professor of Social Enterprise, Columbia Business School.
- Kathleen Segerson, Board of Trustees Distinguished Professor of Economics, University of Connecticut.
- Meredith Fowlie, Professor of Agricultural and Resource Economics, U.C. Berkeley.
- Karen Palmer, Senior Fellow, Resources for the Future.
- Severin Borenstein, Professor of the Graduate School, Haas School of Business, University of California, Berkeley.
- Michael Toffel, Senator John Heinz Professor of Environmental Management and Professor of Business Administration, Harvard Business School.
- Emma Rothschild, Jeremy and Jane Knowles Professor of History, Harvard University.
- Nathaniel Keohane, President, C2ES.
- Amy Harder, Executive Editor, Cypher News.
- Richard Zeckhauser, Frank Ramsey Professor of Political Economy, Harvard Kennedy School.
- Kimberly (Kim) Clausing, School of Law, University of California at Los Angeles
- Hunt Allcott, Professor of Global Environmental Policy, Stanford Doerr School of Sustainability.
- Meghan O’Sullivan, Jeane Kirkpatrick Professor of the Practice of International Affairs at Harvard Kennedy School.
- Robert Lawrence, Albert Williams Professor of International Trade and Investment, Harvard Kennedy School.
- Charles Taylor, Assistant Professor of Public Policy, Harvard Kennedy School.
- Wolfram Schlenker, Ray Goldberg Professor of the Global Food System, Harvard Kennedy School.
- Karen Fisher-Vanden, Professor of Environmental & Resource Economics, Pennsylvania State University
- Max Bearak, climate and energy reporter, New York Times
- Vijay Vaitheeswaran, global energy and climate innovation editor, The Economist
- Joseph Aldy, Teresa & John Heinz Professor of the Practice of Environmental Policy, Harvard Kennedy School
“Environmental Insights” is hosted on SoundCloud, and is also available on iTunes, Pocket Casts, Spotify, and Stitcher.
